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Thread: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

  1. #1
    GUEST aZnRYcEbOi's Avatar
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    ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    My mom got a ticket for disobeying a stop sign last week, just down the street from our house. Everyone usually does a rolling stop at that stop sign, and she just happened to get caught by some cop. The fine is 3 demerit points (according to MTO's webite) and a $110 fine. I want to tell her to go fight the ticket, but I don't see how you can possibly argue your way out of a ticket like this?
    Any ideas?

  2. #2
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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    Arrive early, Plead with the prosecutor to get it reduced. Ask if they can do anything for her.. say she has a clean driving record, no past histories and she made a mistake. Usually works. They rather plead than go with a "trial"

  3. #3
    GUEST aZnRYcEbOi's Avatar
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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    She's got 3 options
    1) Plea of Guilty, and send payment
    2) Plead Guilty with an explanation - attend the court office sometime between 9-4 on weekdays
    3) Trial - attend the court office and file a notice of intention to appear in court


    I told her to do option #2, and since it's her first time, maybe she will be able to get it reduced somehow. If they can't do anything, then I'll tell her to do option 3...

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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    I think option 3 is the best one. Pleading guilty with an explanation is still pleading guilty. By following option #2, your mom's insurance rate would go up the same as in option #1, because insurance companies do not look at demerit points, they look at the actual conviction.

    Other than the $110 fine being reduced, there is no other benefit to option #2. Posting a trial date would result in the delay of the conviction, probably by 4-6 months. Maybe the officer won't show up.

    Good luck

  5. #5
    Hands off my Stash! Todd's Avatar
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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    I did what NoSoup mentions, it worked for me.

    http://www.hondaprelude.to/forums/sh...9&postcount=21

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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    Ask the prosecutor to reduce the fine to a improper stop. I think its a $100 fine but no points.

    I used to do this all the time, i worked as a point agent.

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    Super Admin James's Avatar
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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    I got one of these.

    My cop didn't show.

    Basically it's a case of you either stopped or not...there's no explanation...
    97 "SH" - Gone

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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    Rusty, was the cop behind your mom when she failed to stop at the stop sign or hiding somewhere around the intersection?

    I received the same ticket many years back at a "T" intersection...I fully stopped before the stop sign before making a left turn, I then saw the cop at right hand side after I made the turn and the next thing he did was asking me to pull over. There were some trees and fenses that blocked the view from where the cop was hiding. I used it as an arguement with some pictures taken by myself to prove as I did fully stopped and he couldn't have the full view of the intersection from where he was hiding... I fought it off totally with no points and fines...

    if there's some objects between where the cop was hiding and the stop sign area that're blocking the view, you could use it as an advantage just like what I did...but if your mom was being followed by the cop then I guess I'd plead guilty with an explanation...

    either way, good luck!

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    GUEST aZnRYcEbOi's Avatar
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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    Hey bennett, unfortunately my mom has no clue where the cop came from. You know, asian women drivers are usually oblivious to their surroundings...

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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    How were conditions? Black ice? snow? rain? Usually precipitation can get you out of things like this if you say you slid...

    Well, first thing I would do is reschedule the court date. Chances that the cop will not show are increased. Cops usually have a near-full day of court cases in which all of their court cases (in a relative time frame) are scheduled for the same day, thereby increasing the chances a cop shows up for his cases. If in a 30 day work schedule he is asked to go to court on 10 different days, it wouldn't be efficient would it. So therefore when you reschedule, you often throw the schedule out of whack...

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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by 8500 RPM
    How were conditions? Black ice? snow? rain? Usually precipitation can get you out of things like this if you say you slid...
    Which would mean that you drove to fast for the conditions... BAM! Dangerous Driving charge!!! True, precipitation can get you out of things like this and get you into other things!

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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    The same thing happened to my sister and I told her choose Option 3) Trial - attend the court office and file a notice of intention to appear in court.
    The trial date is usually a few month later.
    2 weeks before the trial date, she got the court date postponed - she had to go to the jugde to explain why.. just give a bs like you have to go on a business trip.
    She went to the postpned court date and the cop did not show up => case thrown!
    The chances of a cop showing up at a postpone date is really slim if it a minor ticket.

    remember, even if you plead guilty to a lesser charge, it's still gonna reflect on your insurance as a traffic ticket = more insurance $$

  13. #13
    GUEST aZnRYcEbOi's Avatar
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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    UPDATE:

    My mom went to court today, and she didn't even speak to the prosecutor to do the negotiation. There's some clerk there that you talk to, and she got her ticket reduced from $110 & 3 points, to $40+$10 admin fee & zero points.

    It'll still go on her record for insurance, but oh well.

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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    I just got hit with the same thing - disobeying a stop sign - failure to stop, 136 (1)(a).
    I don't have a good excuse, it was 7am, clear out and rolling stop. But it's my first offence, and although I don't care about the $110 fine, it's the demerit points I'm worried about.

    Any advice?

    aZnRYcEbOi, you said your mom got it reduced. Which option did she go with?
    3) Trial - attend the court office and file a notice of intention to appear in court?

    How do you plead not guilty to a clear rolling stop?

    NoSoup4u, I'm planning to do exactly that, but I'm not sure how I handle the initial part, ie not sure what to plead to to get to that point.

    feirce, I couldn't find the difference, how can I go about getting it reduced?

    Any and all advice would be welcome.

    Thanks guys.

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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    ^ when you go in for your trial date, the prosecuter will offer you a reduced option... you can that take which is most likely no points and just a fine and conviction which is still bad for your insurance co.

    OR you can get a lawyer, and let him deal with it.... Depending on your lawyer he might be able to get it completely thrown out. let me know if you wannn speak to my lawyer.

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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    my mom selected option 2 Plead Guilty with an explanation - attend the court office sometime between 9-4 on weekdays.

    even with 0 points, it's still a minor infraction so it'll impact your insurance.

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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    Only way it won't affect insurance is if you get a trial and the cop doesn't show, which is a gamble.

    Only get a ticket fighter or lawyer if you're already paying stupid insurance rates (facility styles)....otherwise, the cost negates the value.
    97 "SH" - Gone

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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    When I went in for a speeding ticket I opted to plea not guilty. The cop showed up, but just before things got underway, he went up to the prosecutor and asked who from his list was present. There was 2 of us, so he said that for us 2 he'd lost the evidence, but for everyone else he's good to go. Walked out with no tickets or charges

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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    Thanks guys.
    My insurance rates are bad, but not that bad - and I don't think I want to gamble with him not showing up at the trial, even if I do the tricky, "postpone the date" thing.

    Looks like option 2 is for me. Cross your fingers.

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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    There is a common misconception when it comes to "guilty with an explanation." When I worked for POINTTS, we would have people come in all the time weighing their options, of course paying us to fight it for them was always the last thing they wanted to do. They were under the impression that "guilty with an explanation" would be free, and get them out of trouble. Well, it is free to select that option, but the explanation part is not what they think it is.

    For the most part people think its an opportunity to plead guilty and explain why they were breaking the law, in hopes that the court would smile on them and say "well thats alright then!" It doesn't go that way. Guilty with an explanation is really just guilty with submissions on the penalty imposed. In this case it would be the fine. The "explanation" or submission would be that you are an out of work, single parent, just barely trying to scrape by and there is no way you could ever afford to pay the full fine, or something along those lines. You are still pleading guilty, so there is still a conviction, AND points if any are attached to the offense.

    Another misconception is that a lawyer will be able to do more for you than a paralegal/court agent. The truth is the opposite. A lawyer will avoid traffic court like the plague. They can't charge thousands of dollars there, so they will either decline your case, or charge you their fee (thousands) and send a paralegal in on their behalf. A paralegal who specializes in POA will be able to get a better result for you than a lawyer who has little or no experience with Provincial Offenses.

    Another thing to keep in mind is requesting adjournments never works out in your favour. If you request an adjournment, they will ask you if you are willing to waive your "11b" rights, which is the right to a speedy trial in the charter. This means they can go past a year. On the other hand if the prosecution requests an adjournment it is advantageous for you, as it was their inability to proceed that held things up.


    Perhaps I should get back in the game and offer TPC members a discount on traffic tickets.. heh.

  21. #21
    GUEST Luckee13's Avatar
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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    ^ by lawyer, I mean an agent... he only deals with traffic tickets. hes no criminal lawyer.

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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    This is a wake up call, i have been lazy lately and make alot of rolling stops at stop signs, mainly so i can keep the car in 2nd gear lol. My 49kms over speeding ticket in 08 will be off my insurance in Oct (atleast i was told after 3 years it is). Last thing i want to do is add 3 more points to the 4 i got from that ticket.

  23. #23
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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    There are a couple of things not discussed here... There are 4 options when you get a ticket, not 3. The 4th option is not stated on the ticket, but has worked out for me numerous times (I have def had my share of tickets)..
    It's the "first attendance meeting".. Before you do anything within your 15 days, you can get a first attendance meeting, which is a meeting with the justice of the peace (JOP) and work a deal..
    THis is the government's shot at working a working a "deal" with the defendant as to avoid the court time and associated costs.. If you are not a good negotiater or aren't offered a "deal" that you like, you can then pick one of the 3 options listed on the ticket... JOP can reduce the charge which will net you less demerit points and smaller fine..

    The other thing that people are worried about is demerit points.. you gain them, not lose them.. After 2 years of driving experience, you are legally allowed to accumalate 15 points and then you lose your licence..

    Between 9 & 12 points, they will call you in for an "interview" (been through my share).. Basically the point I'm trying to get accros is that demerit points are directly related to losing your licence, nothing to do with insurance..
    lowering the points on a ticket does not at all help your insurance. It only helps you not get closer to losing your licence...
    Insurance accounts for all driving violation tickets no matter how small, and rate them a minor or major offence... They'll last for 3 years on your insurance record.. Demerit points are taken away after 2 years...

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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by aZnRYcEbOi View Post
    my mom selected option 2 Plead Guilty with an explanation - attend the court office sometime between 9-4 on weekdays.

    even with 0 points, it's still a minor infraction so it'll impact your insurance.
    It'll impact your insurance if, come renewal time, they pull the latest copy of your record. If not (most likely) your same/similar rates will apply. 3 minor convictions under my name with no rate increases. Keep in mind though if you decide to switch insurance companies with any minor or major conviction on your record, it'll go up for sure. Not only do they ask you if you have any convictions on your record (refering to the insurance quotes) but they are also more likely to pull your record when signing up with a new company as well.

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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    I'm trying to help someone out. What is the section for improper stop under the HTA?

  26. #26
    Just some guy Grant's Avatar
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    Re: ticket: disobey stop sign, failure to stop

    Failure to stop at a red light, HTA 144 (18)

    Disobey stop sign HTA 136 (1)(A)

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