NA Dyno Zeeman tuning 230whp 185wtq

[LUDEacris]

All said and done my build finished almost as planned. I predicted 225whp/190wtq but I'm happy with the results.

I was lucky enough to have the car tuned with Neptune by Zeeman.
If I remember correctly my base run numbers were 169wtq/210whp





2001 Prelude Se

-S2000tb
-Port matched Head/intake/tb
-Stock Headgasket
-Short Ram with BPI Flowstack
-Euro R intake
-RDX injectors
-S2 Tuner 2 Cams
-S2 Valvesprings/Retainers
-Mugen Headers 2.5 collector
-Vibrant 2.5 high flow metal core cat
-Magnaflow 22" resonator
-Vibrant 3" muffler
-P28 w/Neptune
-F23 Crank
-Stock F23 rods
-Mahle 11.5 Pistons (.25 overbore)
-OBD1 Conversion
-No PS
-No BS
-F20b Crank pulley
-Competiton Clutch Stage 2
-Competition Clutch Flywheel 12lb

-All dyno runs were 4th gear pulls


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo_5oVDQgGs


I have to thank:

SSR Racing-for documenting their build
http://www.sixsigmaracing.com/
Rosko Racing-for Euro R accesories
http://www.roskoracing.com/
Hivelocity Tuning (aka Zeeman)
http://www.hivelocitytuning.ca/index.html
Gilman Auto-motor install
http://www.gilmanauto.aaro.ca/
Gord Bush Performance-motor assembly
http://gordbushperformance.com/about.htm

and everyone one this board that sold and bought my parts

[histyle]

Good job man and nice numbers, You might wana post up some details on your build.

[Douglas]

Nice numbers. What does a stock H22 do on that dyno?

[LUDEacris]

Originally Posted by Somboa

Nice numbers. What does a stock H22 do on that dyno?

I can only guess about 167whp and 145wtq

[Douglas]

Looks like you're making power all the way to redline.. did you try raising the rev limit to see if it still climbs?

[LUDEacris]

Originally Posted by Somboa

Looks like you're making power all the way to redline.. did you try raising the rev limit to see if it still climbs?

The Euro R does not usually continue to make power above 7k and on all other runs the hp peaked at 7k. The whole point of stroking this motor was to increase the torque to a point where I wouldn't need to rev high.

For street/track driving this motor will not go above 7k on a regular basis

It was a balance or hp vs tq. As one raised the other would drop. On one run the hp peaked at 238whp with 160wtq.

[Mojo85]

this is all on a h22?

[prelude_vtec99]

nice numbas!

[LUDEacris]

Originally Posted by Mojo85

this is all on a h22?

My acutal engine displacement is 2319.8cc.=2.3L

There's no replacement for displacement!

[histyle]

With No BS belt hows the vibration at higher RPM

[LUDEacris]

Originally Posted by histyle

With No BS belt hows the vibration at higher RPM

You feel the vibration from 3k to 4k and then it's gone. It's mild but noticeable.

[SilverBullet_01]

wow - congrats

[LUDEacris]

Originally Posted by SilverBullet_01

wow - congrats

Thanks,

BTW, my Lude was tuned on the Tagcraft dyono for anyone that wants to compare readings.

[SilverBullet_01]

mine was there too ... 164 ... longgggggggg way to go

[LUDEacris]

Originally Posted by SilverBullet_01

mine was there too ... 164 ... longgggggggg way to go

It's not as far as you think. As long as you spend your money where it counts you'll work your way up there.

[LUDE_4_LIFE]

Congrats on the numbers man.

[Johnny]

That little noise at the end of the video sums it up quite well.

[Lloyd]

Originally Posted by SilverBullet_01

mine was there too ... 164 ... longgggggggg way to go

Originally Posted by LUDEacris

It's not as far as you think. As long as you spend your money where it counts you'll work your way up there.

Yeah, don't buy junk "ported" heads aka in reality repaired after god only knows what heads, stick to stuff that works

[reza]

damn some serious numbers. **** K-series

[Mojo85]

Originally Posted by LUDEacris

My acutal engine displacement is 2319.8cc.=2.3L

There's no replacement for displacement!

so the F23 crank + rods + mahle pistons gained you the extra displacment? also how do you know the exact number? what about compression? also, how does the car rev feel? slower?

anyways, very nice!

[LUDEacris]

Originally Posted by Johnny

That little noise at the end of the video sums it up quite well.

lol that was me. The motor was so loud I thought it was going to pop

[LUDEacris]

Originally Posted by Mojo85

so the F23 crank + rods + mahle pistons gained you the extra displacment? also how do you know the exact number? what about compression? also, how does the car rev feel? slower?

anyways, very nice!

I used a displacement calculator http://bgsoflex.com/displacement.html
The car has bags of torque and revs much faster. At low rpm all I need to do is press on the gas and it's ready to pull away.

[LUDEacris]

The best thing about this build is all the stock Honda parts that I used.
S2k throttle body
Euro R intake
RDX injectors
F23 Crank and rods
Stock head, block and rod bolts
Stock head gasket
Stock waterpump
Head was only port matched not polished
Stock valves
Stock sparkplug wires
F20b Crank pulley

[TwizT]

Originally Posted by LUDEacris

Thanks,

BTW, my Lude was tuned on the Tagcraft dyono for anyone that wants to compare readings.

Great Job man ! Comparing dyno numbers is highly over rated as each dyno is calibrated differently. What's important is to look at the power curve.

[SilverBullet_01]

any quarter mile times?

[LUDEacris]

Originally Posted by SilverBullet_01

any quarter mile times?

This motor was not built for the quarter mile

[SilverBullet_01]

^ sickkkkkk

was just wondering ,,, whenever i see a 5th gen with over 200 whp, i wonder how much faster they are compared to stock, let's say 15.2 times

[TraKtion]

im glad someone finally posted proof u can use these mahle pistons without costly resleving, you probably just re-honed the walls?

[the boogler]

thats an impressive build... im looking into starting mine now but i guess itll take me till next year becuase funds are tight...

wats so bad about polishing a head? im looking at buying a port and polished head to begin my build..
u got some nice numbers for a n/a car bro

[LUDEacris]

Originally Posted by TraKtion

im glad someone finally posted proof u can use these mahle pistons without costly resleving, you probably just re-honed the walls?

I've used these pistons for almost 25k with no issues. Gord Bush bored the cylinder walls
.25 over and assembled the motor.

If things go as planned I'm going to squeeze another 20whp and 15wtq out of the motor and then I'm done.

[Jarek]

Very nice numbers. Any cost estimates?

[LUDE_4_LIFE]

Sorry to jack your thread.

Originally Posted by TraKtion

im glad someone finally posted proof u can use these mahle pistons without costly resleving, you probably just re-honed the walls?

Yes they seem to good depending on the machining process. However they are still known for failures in the higher km setups. N/A seems to last longer, but it is very very rare to find any mahle setups past 40-45,000km's. The coating will eventually wear off then you have to replace them again. If people want to discuss it more we should open up a new thread.

Here are pictures of a mahle setup that failed at just around 34,000km's.

[blackaccord]

oo very nice numbers

[LUDEacris]

Originally Posted by Jarek

Very nice numbers. Any cost estimates?

I got all my parts at a very good price but it took me over a year to collect them. Also, our dollar was on par which really helped for the items that I purchased new.

The major cost of the build was for the machine work and assembly. I won't drop prices because I know that there will be one or two people that will have a stupid comment. Anyone that has been in the game long enough knows that a properly built NA motor is not cheap.

[Lord Dragon]

Nice numbers dude

[LUDEacris]

Originally Posted by LUDE_4_LIFE

Sorry to jack your thread.

Yes they seem to good depending on the machining process. However they are still known for failures in the higher km setups. N/A seems to last longer, but it is very very rare to find any mahle setups past 40-45,000km's. The coating will eventually wear off then you have to replace them again. If people want to discuss it more we should open up a new thread.

Here are pictures of a mahle setup that failed at just around 34,000km's.

If you're going to post pictures and claim that it's because of the pistons you have to at least provide more information to backup it up. This is obviously not your motor so you don't know what actually happened. For all you know this person could have installed these pistons on block with high mileage then boosted the hell out of it. Or it could have run out of oil and continued to drive until the motor failed. Or after many km's of running on a bad tune (too rich) it finally had enough...etc...

Car companies spend millions of dollars developing and designing motors. Mahle/Cosworth have been making pistons for FRM sleeved cars for years. Now a bunch of kids with no motor building knowledge come along and slap them in their car, rip them apart and then blame the company.

There are three major reasons why built motors blow..
1 The owner beat the crap out of it
2 It wasn't built properly
3 It wasn't tuned properly

I know nothing about motor assembly so I brought all the parts to a well known machinist
who builds race motors for a living.

Opening a discussion in another thread would be pointless because as far as I know (and please correct me if I'm wrong) I'm the only person on this board with these pistons.

[Northern Sun]

mahle = quick fix,

[LUDE_4_LIFE]

Originally Posted by LUDEacris

If you're going to post pictures and claim that it's because of the pistons you have to at least provide more information to backup it up. This is obviously not your motor so you don't know what actually happened. For all you know this person could have installed these pistons on block with high mileage then boosted the hell out of it. Or it could have run out of oil and continued to drive until the motor failed. Or after many km's of running on a bad tune (too rich) it finally had enough...etc...

Car companies spend millions of dollars developing and designing motors. Mahle/Cosworth have been making pistons for FRM sleeved cars for years. Now a bunch of kids with no motor building knowledge come along and slap them in their car, rip them apart and then blame the company.

There are three major reasons why built motors blow..
1 The owner beat the crap out of it
2 It wasn't built properly
3 It wasn't tuned properly

I know nothing about motor assembly so I brought all the parts to a well known machinist
who builds race motors for a living.

Opening a discussion in another thread would be pointless because as far as I know (and please correct me if I'm wrong) I'm the only person on this board with these pistons.

There are countless threads all over the place about people using MAHLE setups. Yes a lot of problems were associated with people going cheap on the machining process. This was causing failure within 10,000km's. The people that were seeing the higher km setups did have it properly built to spec, but the material on the pistons eventually wears no matter how good the machining process is. Do a search and show me one mahle setup h22 that has made it over 50,000km's. I have yet to see one. I have searched on hondatech, and preludepower as my two main sites for information on h22 setups. I could have missed a higher km setup, but I doubt it.

Those pictures were put in a thread on preludepower from a reputable tuner that knew the owner of the car. He then contacted the engine shop that built the motor and everything was built to spec that the mahle company suggests.

Like I said before the material eventually wears off, with heat created on boosted setups they will not last as long as an N/A setup.

Here is the link to that thread on preludepower.
http://www.preludepower.com/forums/s...=mahle+pistons

[LUDEacris]

So let's put this in perspective. Since you're quoting American websites they are speaking in miles. 50,000 miles=80,000km. Any built high hp motor owned by a responsible person should be torn down around that time anyway to replace all the parts that are meant for a car making alot less hp.

There may be countless threads out there but you fail to also explain that the first batch of Mahle pistions had design issues. How many of these pistons made it into motors? Also, during the honing process the heat generated causes the sleeves to expand. Once cooled they shrink below the acceptable tolerances. An experience machinist would know this and compensate.

Guess I'll find out soon enough how long these pistons will hold up. Don't worry, I'll make sure to post on Preludepower so you don't miss my update.

Since you like Preludepower so much keep reading http://www.preludepower.com/forums/s...d.php?t=313688

BTW, your car makes good power but it's ****ing ugly

[LUDE_4_LIFE]

^LOL, I was not trying to be a dick, or rag on your car in anyway. Just showing that the setups still fail. Keep praising the mighty mahle setup. When you pass the amount of km's I have put on my car, then you can preach to me about the success. Over 60,000km's boosted and still going strong.

Yes I am quite aware of miles vs km's lol. If you look in the link I posted up he said 21,000 MILES, which is around 34,000km's like I posted up. I am not an idiot. I am not the most mechanically inclined person around by any means, nor do I try to be, but I don't understand why you are getting all frustrated at me. Because you use Mahles?

Thanks for telling me my car is ugly. Don't think I don't know that already lol. I have wanted to rip that kit off for a long time, but there are other priority's in life right now, and I refuse to spend anymore money on the car other then maintenance.